Ultimate Axiom

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Posts by Ultimate Axiom

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  3

  Is old Watchtower literature being preserved by any particular entity?

  by Etude in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i read a recent post from mickbobcat about how expensive some of the old watchtower literature for sale is.

  is there a group or entity that is working to digitize or somehow preserve the old literature, giving others the ability to research them?.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  There are quite a few sites storing old WT publications. Those that I have found the most comprehensive are;
  https://archive.org/download/WatchtowerLibrary/
  http://www.watchtowerwayback.org/en/static1/library
  
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  43

  When You Were A Witness Did You Believe Everything Taught?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  obviously at some point you stopped believing the witnesses had the truth or else you wouldn’t be here.

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  but for the most part, were you a true believer or were you typically a rebel or a doubter?

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  Ultimate Axiom

  I was a convert at 16, and believed it completely. Within a year I had left school, got baptised, started pioneering, become a typical SR jerk thinking that those who went into full time jobs after leaving school were hypocrites. This was 1969/70, so if you were around at that time you might understand.

  Having said that, I don’t think many of us actually believed all of the stuff in the books about Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation. We “accepted” it not because it made sense, but because of all the other stuff the WT taught, and we knew that some of it would change anyway, and took the view that all would be revealed after Armageddon.

  My first doubts about the WTS started creeping in when I discovered that a huge percentage of witnesses in Africa were in Nigeria, and I thought, what about the rest of Africa, so I started to investigate further. When I discovered that less than 1% of JWs were covering 50% of the world’s population I realised something was wrong, and not just with the Watchtower. The evil in the world that had been going on for thousands of years made me realise there was also something wrong with God (I had had a somewhat sheltered childhood). It took three or four years for me to go from PIMO to POMO, but by 1980 I was out.
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  22

  What is the youngest a child has been baptised as a JW?

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the youngest reference i have come across is in the 1992 watchtower (march 1st page 27) - “in the summer of 1946, i was baptized at the international convention in cleveland, ohio.

  although i was only six years of age…”.

  i would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  I have not yet come across an example of anyone under six being baptised, but I have found a couple examples of seven year olds, and another six year old. I have also come across scores of examples of 8 and 9 year old children being baptised, and literally hundreds of examples of 10-15 year olds.

  “In 1934, Mom and Dad were baptized. I too wanted to get baptized, and I kept insisting until Mother asked an older Witness to talk with me about it. He asked many questions in a manner that I could understand. Then he told my parents that I should not be prevented from being baptized; it might harm my spiritual growth. So I was baptized the following summer, when I was still six. (WT Aug 1, 1996, p21)”

  “Reared in such a spiritually rich environment, I made my dedication to God and was baptized before my eighth birthday. (WT Oct 1, 2000, p28)”

  “In September 1938, my parents were baptized. My siblings and I were baptized in December 1941 at a national convention held at Hargreave Park in Sydney, New South Wales. I was seven years old. (WT Oct 1 2006, p12)”

  I particularly like the reasoning of the “elder” in the six year old’s case – “it might harm her spiritual development if you don’t allow her to get baptised”. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. And while this happened nearly a century ago, it is quoted here with approval in 1996, showing that they would do the same again today if the occasion arose. Indeed they have done so, as shown in R&R’s example earlier in this thread.

  The Watchtower makes a lot of noise about the unscriptural and illogical practice of infant baptism, but they clearly ignore the concept of “age of consent” in this matter. It shows something of their ingrained hypocrisy, when they can say the following, while continuing to baptise children, I mean, who on earth would consider a six year old to be anything other than a "small child"?:

  “Jesus’ words at Matthew 28:19, 20 show that it is those who have been made his disciples that should be baptized. Hence, it follows that no infant or small child could meet the Scriptural requirements for baptism.” (WT March 15 1988, p14)”
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  22

  What is the youngest a child has been baptised as a JW?

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the youngest reference i have come across is in the 1992 watchtower (march 1st page 27) - “in the summer of 1946, i was baptized at the international convention in cleveland, ohio.

  although i was only six years of age…”.

  i would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  Came across this today, it’s from Consolation, December 23, 1942, page 13. While it’s not conclusive proof that the WTS have baptised children younger than 6, more than three of these would appear to be so.

  
  
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  22

  What is the youngest a child has been baptised as a JW?

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the youngest reference i have come across is in the 1992 watchtower (march 1st page 27) - “in the summer of 1946, i was baptized at the international convention in cleveland, ohio.

  although i was only six years of age…”.

  i would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  Thanks for those R&R, much appreciated.
  

  Minimus - very interesting and revealing experience. I wonder if the WTS fully realize the implications of baptising children. In their GT scenario, suppose a congregation was left with a couple of dozen sisters, half a dozen unbaptised, but adult males, and one baptised six year old boy. How that would work?

  Anyone any other examples of six and seven year olds being baptised, or experiences of their own being baptised as a pre-teen?
  
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  22

  What is the youngest a child has been baptised as a JW?

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the youngest reference i have come across is in the 1992 watchtower (march 1st page 27) - “in the summer of 1946, i was baptized at the international convention in cleveland, ohio.

  although i was only six years of age…”.

  i would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  The youngest reference I have come across is in the 1992 Watchtower (March 1st page 27) - “In the summer of 1946, I was baptized at the international convention in Cleveland, Ohio. Although I was only six years of age…”

  I would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times. If anyone has similar cases of any pre-teen baptisms I would be grateful to hear them, preferably from WT literature itself rather than outside sources.
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  4

  Many people did something similar !

  by Phizzy in

  1. social
  2. humour

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  Ultimate Axiom

  
  
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  56

  A Generation Change Again???

  by BereanThinker7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have heard a few whispers that once again they are going to be changing the generation teaching.

  does anybody have on info on this?.

  i would love to be able to hit my family with a. .

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  Ultimate Axiom

  They should have stuck with the 1995 explanation which had a floating “wicked generation” that could last up to Armageddon, whenever that would be. It was boring, but it worked. Why did they have to tinker with it?

  They tinkered with it precisely because it floated and could thus last indefinitely. The faithful need a target: 1914, 1925, 1975, 20th century, 1914 generation etc. Simply saying ‘just around the corner’ for decades to come wouldn't cut it.

  When the overlapping generation was created back in the mid 90's

  The overlapping generation was not created in the mid-90s. In 1995 they abandoned the literal generation and taught that the ‘generation’ now meant ‘contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics’. In 2008 the 1995 definition was modified again and no longer referred to contemporary people in general, but to the anointed class. Two years later, in 2010 we were introduced to the overlapping generation, which first appeared in the April 15 Watchtower of 2010.

  the second group would be those who were born before the last individuals in the first group died.

  Sister Paulina is being ambiguous. While it is true that the second group were born before the last individuals in the first group died, the important thing is that they were anointed before the last individuals in the first group died. They were therefore born several decades before the last individuals in the first group died.

  If we assume that at the turn of this century the vast majority of the anointed were over thirty, then the youngest of the second group was born in the 1960s. It took them until 1995 to abandon the literal generation, so they could hang out this two-group generation idea until at least 2060. I would be surprised therefore, if they were to change it now with so much slack in the system, especially as this current lot will all be dead before the chickens come home to roost on this one.

  On the other hand, two-group generation concept is so absurd that they may feel their hand is being forced, for even in their ivory tower, they must be aware that even those who understand it don’t really believe it. Short of decoupling the ‘generation’ from the year 1914 completely, it’s hard to see what they could have up their sleeve. I genuinely hope the rumour is false – this overlapping-groups generation is such a valuable weapon to use against them.
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  32

  Watch out, here comes the Governing Body!

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a picture in this week's wt shows the annointed after being raised to heaven, when they start "smashing the nations".

  creepy!!

  i imagine am3 is out front, it seems like something he's eager for.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  That lot can't be the GB, they wouldn't be seen dead sporting beards.
  
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  82

  Prediction: What Will Happen To Trump Now That Biden Will Be President?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think he will have to deal with the attorney general of new york amongst other things.

  i do think he will not simply go away quietly ..

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  Ultimate Axiom

  Donald could console himself with the two year secondment offer he’s had from CERN. They have requested his help with their latest set of experiments using the Large Hadron Collider. With his huge IQ and his Supermassive ego, they suspect he may be the only thing dense enough to stop neutrinos.